Mathematics of Care with Chanda Babel

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Hi, welcome to Care Of. This is a short form podcast featuring conversations with creators,

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creative technologists about code, work and care. As I traverse ideas and realities of

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care in my life with first my grandparents and now my son, I recognize some shifts in

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the ways of thinking and working, differences in access available or afforded to me. And

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I can't help but wonder how care translates to others in the creator community. This podcast

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wonder how care translates to others in the creator community.

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This podcast is a simple attempt to open up, investigate,

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and document our practices from the lens of care.

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Mathematically, this care is directly

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proportional to time management.

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OK, so we are restarting.

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Let's see if this works.

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All right.

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I think you can hear me now, yes?

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Undoubtedly.

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Undoubtedly.

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How do you say that word?

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Undoubtedly, undoubtedly. How do you say that word?

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I need to share my parent relaxed with other creative coding.

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I will always be your number one hype woman.

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Okay, good, good. I'm not used to talking this much. I guess I'm out of shape.

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I do actually feel like, to me, the word care, I love that you're coming at this discussion with that word.

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And I think that's not the usual perspective that you will start with when it's, you know, in a sort of like tech or computer science or coding space.

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know, in a sort of like tech or computer science or coding

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space. So, so there's all these different spaces of care to

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navigate.

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Welcoming Chanda ji. Thank you. And

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this is our first and perhaps for this season only podcast

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episode, which will be face to face and I'm so happy and so

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be face to face and I'm so happy and so privileged that Chanda ji has agreed to this.

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She and I will both live in this very wonderful and amazing and stupendous and like and very

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very cool city called Udaipur which is very small and people know each other and it's

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like it's very sweet.

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Chanda ji has and like me has been born here and we both did our schooling here but I'm

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going to read out her bio.

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to read out her bio. Chanda Bavel pursued mathematics in her BSc, got a gold medal,

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very amazing, brilliant mathematician and also continued as an assistant professor in

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mathematics for five years. She then joined the family business and became a director

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of her company. She's been working on computers almost every day of her life with accounting

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and management and then I think wanted to pursue that a bit further and like be able

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I think wanted to pursue that a bit further and like be able to do coding.

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And she really took P5GS to a place that it had never been.

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Very beautiful, full of art, full of very intuitive and wonderful projects which she's been up to.

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Chanda ji, maybe you can tell us a bit about your personal journey a little more.

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Then we'll talk about why you got interested in coding.

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And then you can tell us about that Worli project.

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During the student life, I was a very good basketball player.

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During the student life, I was a very good basketball player.

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I represented Rajasthan State in 1975.

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Mathematics was my favorite subject.

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I did my masters in mathematics.

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And after that, when I was an assistant professor, I was attached to my subject.

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I was attached to my subject, but after that I switched to accounting.

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I have been operating computers since 1995.

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So, I have been acquainted with it.

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Nowadays, after the pandemic, our work has become a little less.

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So, that's why I diverted towards starting a new hobby.

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that I should start my next hobby.

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I tried in Python, self-learning, but couldn't do much.

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I did a little bit. In between, your workshop was offered,

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and I was ready to take that workshop.

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I enjoyed very much because you have designed the course very precisely

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and you have covered up all the basic functions and variables.

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basic functions and variables.

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So, I kept practicing with those functions and variables

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during the workshop and after that also

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I practiced those functions and

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I kept making new sketches and all that.

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In between, because my daughter is an artist

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and she is a designer,

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so all day she...

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Actually, I also did a post-graduation with her in designing.

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And she... Actually, I have also done a post-graduation with her in designing.

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Whatever she learns, she discusses it with me and explains it to me.

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She basically teaches me. Because designing has never been my field.

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But art and design, now I know where and what happens. That's all.

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So, I thought, can I convert some traditional art form into coding?

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I thought, can I convert some traditional art into coding?

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I did some research.

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Because we live in Udaipur,

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Pichwai is the most attractive.

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So I was trying to do something in Pichwai,

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but it was very difficult.

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Because what I learned from the functions or the workshop,

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I was not able to do that.

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Then I turned to the Warli paintings.

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Then I turned to the Warli paintings.

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Warli painting is basically a traditional art from north of Maharashtra and south of Gujarat.

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This covers the whole area.

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Some tribal areas are there.

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The people who make these traditional paintings, these Warli paintings,

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they paint these outside their huts.

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Gradually, these paintings started to come forward.

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Gradually, these paintings started to come forward.

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Basically, the tribal people make these paintings with mud and rice flour.

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They make these white paintings on the mud.

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And while doing that research, I saw that all their characters, animals, objects,

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they are all geometrical figures.

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There is a line, rectangle, triangle, circle.

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They are all geometrical figures.

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Line, rectangle, triangle, circle.

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Then I thought, I can do this.

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So I started this in the coding.

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In the paintings of Warli, I made the human character first.

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After that, gradually, whatever performances they make,

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I tried them first.

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I tried what they already do.

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I tried what they already do.

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Then I thought I should do something more.

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Then I tried a parachute.

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I remember that one. That was a really beautiful sketch.

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So I used a parachute to move the character.

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That was amazing.

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I felt good that I did something different.

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Chanda ji, you are also connected to crafts.

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You are also connected to crafts, maybe because of Aditi.

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Generally, I think we have it here, traditionally, especially in Rajasthan.

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We see so many craft revival things also here.

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But how did your perspective of Worli change when you started reading about it?

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Why did you feel that...

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Because many people see traditional painting and attach something new to it,

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or attach it like a parachute.

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They will take it as you did it wrong.

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But you adapted it beautifully.

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And I think it is very interesting.

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So maybe when you were studying and researching

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you came up with that thing.

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Can you tell us about that?

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Basically I wanted to do some sports activities

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with the character Warli.

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Some sports activities like cricket, football.

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I have to study more about sports, cricket, football.

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I will study more about P5JS.

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Then only I will be able to do it.

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While doing that, I thought that I had made a kite.

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And I was trying to move it.

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Then I thought that I should make a parachute.

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I thought, let's make a parachute.

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So I made a parachute.

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Because it's the same thing,

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I made an ellipse,

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I made a circle,

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and I squared it,

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and I started it.

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Then I thought,

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I can make the character

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hold on to it.

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And then I made the movement,

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the animation.

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So I enjoyed it very much.

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I really liked it.

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So I enjoyed very much.

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activities. But this has become different.

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No one has told me anything yet.

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No, no, I wanted to know that they are also depicting things around them.

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And we are in an urban setting, so for us, the parachute has become normal.

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So I wanted to know that, were you feeling that it is very different?

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I will try something else, something different.

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I will try something else, something different,

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something that they have not done in the Wiley paintings.

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I have not seen anyone in traditional art,

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actually, in coding. I have done a lot of research.

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But traditional art is not converting anyone into coding.

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So, doing this, doing something different,

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naturally you feel one-up, right? It feels good.

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Yes, definitely.

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And you are from the sports and competitive field,

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so you also understand that.

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And you are from the sports and competitive field, so you also understand that.

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That's very nice.

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So, in that context, have you ever thought of doing textile?

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Are you planning to do?

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Or is it not so interesting to you?

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No, not now.

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Actually, I still have a lot to learn in this.

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Because in my schedules, I try to do whatever I get the time and the time.

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I try to learn something in this.

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I try to learn something from this.

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I have learned only 1% of it.

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It's a long way to go.

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Yeah, for all of us.

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So, I was thinking that you gave a good example of Worli.

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Of course, the images are really brilliant.

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But tell us maybe a little bit more.

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Like you are trying some other sketches.

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I know you were telling Aditi and you are also trying to do some projects together.

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projects are trying to do together. And generally, because my maths is very bad, I wanted to know

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how you think mathematically because we lack that ability, Aditi and I. So like how does

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it happen? How do you think? I know that you will say that it happens, but still.

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Basic shapes like square, cube, pentagon, hexagon, octagon, you have to calculate the

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length of the side and angle of the side.

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Angle between the sides.

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So, that concept is clear because of the math.

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I tell them how to set it.

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Basically, it comes down to how you set the angles.

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That's how it all gets set.

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There are some structures that I try to make.

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Right now, we are working on a game structure.

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It's a little different.

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Aditi can tell you the concept of the game.

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My job is to make the rules of the game.

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How to play it.

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That's what we are doing.

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That's what we are doing.

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It's like a family game design studio.

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I think you guys are calling it Babblefish, right?

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Is that the... Babblefish, ok.

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So, ok, so that's something to look forward to.

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So, my question was that you have started exploring in 3D,

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WebGL, etc. in P5.

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In that, of course, P5 WebGL is a little limited.

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P5 WebGL is a little limited. But still you have figured out the forms beautifully.

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So if you could tell us about the process, it's something very inspirational I feel people can learn from.

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Even now, because in 3D you can explore so much. But because the functions I have learnt are very limited,

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So I'm trying to make the character of Warli in 3D.

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So I changed the triangles in the cone, the circle in the sphere,

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the lines in the cuboid, the rectangles in the cuboid.

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So it worked.

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Basically, you should be clear about the concept of how to see things in 2D in 3D.

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So you can add that function or that variable.

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3D, how will you see it? So you can add that function or that variable.

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I think now we will see your dice generator in P5.

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I am sure you must be thinking, not just a cube dice.

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No, not a cube dice.

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Just a different kind of dice. I mean, I have only seen some photos.

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Like in board games. So that I am looking forward to.

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In all the interviews I have taken, you hold the most experience of life.

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you hold the most experience of life.

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What was your trajectory?

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Where does care fit in it?

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How do you see these practices that you are doing?

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How do they fit into your idea of care?

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We will just have a free conversation about this.

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For me, care is just to give love, affection and time

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to the person you want to care.

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and time to the person you want to care.

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Or work-wise, you have to again give the time.

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So mathematically, this care is directly proportional to time management.

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Wonderful!

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Time management is the key, basically.

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So how much you give to your kids, how much you give to your work,

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how much you give to your home.

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And the biggest thing is what things you can offload.

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And the biggest thing is what you can offlet.

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If you don't want to offlet anyone for any activity of the child,

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then you have to give the time to your kid.

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So for the other activity, you hire someone else or set someone else to perform that activity.

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So that's all.

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That's so beautiful.

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I can't ask more.

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That's all. That's so beautiful. I can't ask more.

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Right now, my mom and I are living together, like you and Aditi.

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This idea that yesterday Aditi told me a very interesting thing that

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I was always doing something with my mom but I never thought of it as a collaboration.

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But now I can see that it is a collaboration.

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and I think I can't collaborate with my mom at least in work but in life of course we are collaborating

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and I think that's something very interesting because we never think about our life like our personal lives

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as something where we are collaborating

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and you are not doing this collaboration only with Aditi, you are doing it with Arvind Ji

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and of course you must have some equation with your son although he is not living here

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equation with your son although he is not living here.

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So let us just open it.

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Tell me a little bit about it.

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It's a difficult task. Truly.

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Because you collaborate with your husband

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and work with him. So you have to

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act like a boss.

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Because

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he is the higher authority.

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And you are working with him

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so you have to work accordingly.

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You cannot put

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any idea in between.

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This is in the business that you have.

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But this is in the business that you have.

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Yes, yes.

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And those discussions, because basically you also have a think process, he also had.

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So, what happens in that is that sometimes hot discussions also happen in discussions,

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but collaboration happens.

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With daughter, now I have to consider her higher authority, and I can't.

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I can't because the subject knowledge she has,

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or the depth of knowledge she has, is not mine.

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So whatever she says, I have to say yes ma'am.

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And if she is asking for advice,

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that I should give it from my side,

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then I give my point of view.

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In this context, I would like to ask,

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In this context, I would like to ask you, because I am a very junior mother and you are a very senior mother.

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So, what you said that sometimes you have to listen to the other person and allow them.

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So, when they were young, they used to listen to you.

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So, can you just, I don't know, tell me as a mom to mom, what was that trajectory like?

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How does it feel to like suddenly let them,

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you give them that agency,

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that now you do it, now you understand, you think.

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So tell me a little about that, because I don't know anything about it.

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No, like the independence of the children is increasing,

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like their knowledge is increasing.

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And the biggest thing is that the changes that are coming now,

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in the children, I mean even in our generation and your generation,

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Even in our generation and your generation,

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the technologies you are using,

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naturally we are not that fast.

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So, actually whenever my son comes,

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he teaches me one thing,

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that now you do this,

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you can do it this way,

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you can do it this way.

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Aditi is teaching me daily.

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Actually, in designing and in art,

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We have the knowledge of designing and art and craft.

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Both of us have it.

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My husband and I have it because of Aditi.

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She makes us touch a new topic every day.

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She tells us what's going on.

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Now we are learning from the kids.

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In the beginning, we taught them.

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But after we got to a stage,

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and now because technology is changing so fast,

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we are not able to adapt as fast as we used to.

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fast change is happening. We are not able to adapt as fast as they are. So naturally,

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we are learning from them. So that should happen. It should happen in the parents. Only

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then will there be a balance. You cannot discard it. You cannot discard any knowledge.

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Care Of is a spin-off of Computational Mama's live coding stream called Coding with Friends.

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off of Computational Mama's live coding stream called Coding with Friends.

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Coding with Friends casually and simply claims spaces for women creators.

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The series extends the idea of live coding as a form of camaraderie, friendship and care.

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But after two seasons of Coding with Friends, it seemed crucial to extend these conversations

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in a pre-recorded format where the invited guests can talk more intimately about their

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work, their lives and their ideas of care.

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more intimately about their work, their lives and their ideas of care.