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Hi, welcome to Care Of. This is a short form podcast featuring conversations with creators,

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creative technologists about code, work and care. As I traverse ideas and realities of

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care in my life with first my grandparents and now my son, I recognize some shifts in

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the ways of thinking and working, differences in access available or afforded to me. And

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I can't help but wonder how care translates to others in the creator community. This podcast

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wonder how care translates to others in the creator community.

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This podcast is a simple attempt to open up, investigate,

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and document our practices from the lens of care.

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Mathematically, this care is directly

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proportional to time management.

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OK, so we are restarting.

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Let's see if this works.

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All right.

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I think you can hear me now, yes?

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Undoubtedly, undoubtedly.

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How do you say that word?

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Yes.

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Undoubtedly. Undoubtedly. How do you say that word?

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I need to share my parent relaxed with other creative coding.

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I will always be your number one hype woman.

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Okay, good, good. I'm not used to talking this much.

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Like, I guess I'm out of shape.

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I do actually feel like, to me, the word care,

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I love that you're coming at this discussion with that word.

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And I think that's not the usual perspective that you will start with

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when it's, you know, in a sort of like tech or computer science or coding space.

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know, in a sort of like tech or computer science or coding space.

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So, um, so there's all these different spaces of care to navigate.

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So, yeah. So, uh, welcome guys.

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And, uh, this is the first recording for Care Of,

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which is the new name for the podcast. Um,

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and we have with us the wonderful duo of Curiously Minded,

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with us the wonderful duo of Curiously Minded who've been doing these amazing shader streams

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for the last year now.

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A little bit over, wait, we're in season two, I guess it's a year two?

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Year and a half.

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Yeah, year and a half.

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Yeah, year and a half.

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Wow, time flies.

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Yeah, it's fun.

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So, so we have with us Illithia, who is an artist, creative developer and designer from

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Mexico based in Hamburg, Germany.

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based in Hamburg, Germany.

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And her work is inspired by what stimulates her the most,

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emotions, illustrations, music, and street art.

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And we have Eliza, who is an artist and programmer

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from Montreal, Canada, currently based in Paris, France.

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Fascinated by the influence that programming

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and algorithmic thinking have on the creative process,

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she's been creating artworks with code since 2015.

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Her work has spanned web-based playgrounds

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Her work has spanned web-based playgrounds to full-scale interactive and audio-visual

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installations as well.

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She also mentors and teaches workshops on such topics as shaders, generative art, real-time

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graphics, I didn't know that you do real-time graphics, and sound programming techniques

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and creative applications of AI.

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So a very like sort of set of prolific women who are doing amazing work in the creative

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set of prolific women who are doing amazing work in the creative technology.

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And of course, the reason that they're here is because of Curiously Minded.

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So perhaps we can start by just give us an introduction of what the project is all about.

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And let's take it from there.

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Sure. Do you want to, I don't know, do you want to explain it, Alethea, or do you want me to?

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You can go ahead since you already started talking.

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Yeah, I mean, Curiously Minded is a very casual Twitch stream.

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I mean, I think the original idea was that we would do all kinds of different things,

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but so far we've been focusing on shaders because that's like our mutual love language, I guess.

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So yeah, we started off just kind of pair programming together,

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and eventually we thought it would be fun to open it up to some other people.

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it would be fun to open it up to some other people.

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And so we invited our friends and other people that we really admire who are really prolific

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in their own right with shaders to come on and join us and kind of code jam with us or

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even just teach us one of their techniques.

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So yeah, we've been doing it since I think that we kicked it off like in January of no

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December of 2020.

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Is that right?

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Am I remembering that properly?

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Yeah, that was right in Codemy Festival.

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Yeah, that was right. And Codemy Festival. But we actually have been doing the whole

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like pair programming shaders for almost two years because we did it for like half a year

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before we even decided to curiously mind it. So I think in the summer is going to be our

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like second anniversary.

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Two year anniversary. Yeah, it's true. We used to just hang out on Zoom calls together

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and pair program by ourselves.

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Maybe I can add a little bit more to what Eliza said that another reason why as well

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more to what Eliza said, that another reason why as well, we decided to do is because we

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both have very similar backgrounds and this is probably why our flow was like since the

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very first session. Great. Because we, yeah, it's crazy how sometimes you meet people that

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could be so similar to you without never meeting them before. Right. And like you were saying

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in the beginning, sometimes this personality makes up because of the experiences that you

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beginning, sometimes this personality makes up because of the experiences that you had

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in the past. And I would say that when I met Elisa, it's very similar, like our lives,

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how we grew up and close, we're close to the same generation's time. And we're from America,

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living in Europe. So many similarities. And we wanted to inspire people that come from

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backgrounds like us to do shaders because shaders is an intimidating language. I would

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I would say. I think we can both say, especially, I mean, even for developers. So imagine when

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you're not a developer and you want to do shaders, you feel intimidated that maybe you

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don't even try. And we wanted to, to put ourselves out there because we didn't study computer

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science nor math. We are completely self-taught when it comes to programming. So I think the

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way we tackle programming, as opposed to someone who studied is different. So that's why we

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programming as opposed to someone who studied is different.

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So that's why we just wanted to put ourselves out there.

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Okay, so now I have lots of questions because you just opened a can of worms.

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But first, can you let us know how you came up with the name, Curiously Minded?

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What was it like?

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Was there something behind it?

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I feel like we brainstormed it for a while.

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And I think we just because we wanted to make sure that it wasn't in the off chance that

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we would diverge from our shader focus.

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We did want to have a name that would allow for that.

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chance that we would diverge from our shader focus. We did want to have a name that would

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allow for that. And also just like, it's the curiosity that allows us to be self-taught,

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I think, because without that, like, there's no motivation, right? And we are so curious

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about like how it works and like why people, because like you can approach a problem a

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million different ways, especially with programming. So yeah, I think that that's basically it.

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It's like a little reminder, mantra ethos, like stay curious in your mind. Yeah, I don't

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reminder, mantra, ethos, like stay curious in your mind.

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Yeah.

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I don't know.

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Am I?

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I don't know.

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Alethea, do you have anything to add?

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I'm trying to remember now.

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It is.

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No, no, it is right.

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You're right.

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We had a notion and we said, let's just put words.

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So we totally did a brainstorming and we just put words.

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And then when we were like, okay, now we have like, I don't know, a good amount.

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Let's pick one or like a sentence or something.

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And that's how it came up.

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one or like a sentence or something and that's how it came up.

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I do feel that when people work together,

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like especially in the long term,

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there tends to be like a lot of like shared values and

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experiential instances which kind of bring you together.

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So your thought process kind of align,

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especially when the work is,

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let's say not mainstream in that sense.

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I mean, I sense that a lot with my business partner also.

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So maybe you can tell us a bit more,

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with my business partner also. So maybe you can tell us a bit more like why you

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feel that they kind of aligned in the past even though you were like one is

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way up north and one way down south in Mexico. I mean I feel like we just have a

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very similar kind of attitude about life which is like we don't want to be overly

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stressed. We love to do things but we also don't want to be rigid about you

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but we also don't want to be rigid about turning it into like,

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like with the stream for example,

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we could have been like, no, we absolutely have to stream at the same hour,

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at the same time, every week or every other week,

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and we are always very much like,

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I don't know, I just want to make it fun.

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I want it to be like low stress, low pressure,

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and that's I think what keeps us both going so consistently is that it is not so rigid anywhere,

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like fixed in a contract or written in a calendar like that.

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Also, I don't know, we just always have

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or written in a calendar like that.

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Also, I don't know, we just always have the same like

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musical references or like TV references or just like

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general like cultural upbringing references,

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so we've laughed about that a lot.

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Studied very similar things as well, like I remember telling

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Alethea that I had studied communications and media stuff

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and then found my way, very winding way to like

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art and going into web development by kind of accident

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after doing some video for a while. And I don't know,

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by kind of accident after doing some video for a while.

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And I don't know, she just had a lot of similar

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kind of goalposts along the way.

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And every time we message each other,

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she'll be like, oh, have you heard about this thing?

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I don't know if this is gonna resonate.

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Alethea's always like, ah, unsurprisingly,

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I do love this thing and I already did know about it.

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So there's like a lot of parallels.

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Yeah, like a telepathy almost.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Like it really does feel like that sometimes

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because it's like what Eliza already said.

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For example, like I was telling Eliza,

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because it's like what Eliza already said.

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For example, like I was telling Eliza, I was telling her about a time when I was doing

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Taekwondo and that I really like, I'm passionate about martial arts in general because I like

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this spirituality, the meditation behind it, the art.

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And then Eliza told me, oh, me too.

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And I did martial arts too when I was younger and Bruce Lee.

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And then we were like, oh my God, another thing that we have in common, of course.

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we were like, Oh my God, like another thing that we have in common, of course.

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Like, so it's just those little things that, um, I think that's why we like

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connected and, um, to, to do this.

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Uh, and, and we're first first, like Eliza already said, so that, that really works.

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Well, I think when you find someone that in, in that sense, is

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characterized like you, like, because we could be completely different

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person that we like to plan more.

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completely different person that we like to plan more.

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But if we both were on the same channel,

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then definitely it's going to work.

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Yeah, you want to be on the same wavelength.

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The magic of the collaboration is often in some kind of

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subterranean level of connection with people

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where you just kind of are on the same wavelength,

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and it works, and you have to hold on to those people.

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They're so important because they're so few and far between.

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Because everyone is so weird and different.

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So when you find someone who's equally weird and different,

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you've got to hold on to it. It's important.

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So when you find someone who's equally weird and different, you gotta like, you gotta hold on to it. It's important

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Maybe just give us some examples of those common things like some TV shows that or whatever

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you know these little instances that kind of bring you guys together as a

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as a collective

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There's I mean I have some I have some off the top of my head. I mean I have two in particular

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I know that we've we've we've definitely I remember sending because I don't listen to like alternative rock so much anymore

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to like alternative rock so much anymore,

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but I know Alethea, you still have like a really big kind of,

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you love all of the like rock kind of stuff.

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I've seen you posting about it often.

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And I remember being like,

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I wonder if Alethea has ever heard of like Our Lady Peace,

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which is like a very Canadian reference.

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And at some point I asked her, I can't remember why,

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and she actually knew, and I was so shocked.

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So like stuff like that, I mean, wow.

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And also, I don't know, Gilmore Girls, what else?

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MTV, I was gonna say,

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because that's the reason why we connected with music.

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What else? MTV I was gonna say because that's the reason why we connected with

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music and because we were talking I think both were from this area where MTV

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was huge in America and actually good because I would say that in the past

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decade I don't know what happened with MTV. Totally, back in the day when music

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videos still had budgets. Yeah, yeah. And like but also even so like the Taekwondo

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Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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And like, but also even so like the taekwondo, I also did taekwondo, I did judo, karate.

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And like, I don't know, what else? Well, that's the thing.

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So like once...

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What else? Blogging. We talked about blogging and we like fashion.

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Fashion also.

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So I think we're both into fashion.

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So in the past, yeah, exactly. That's what I was thinking.

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Like in the past, I think we have an era where we're into fashion.

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So was it like street or couture?

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street or couture? Mine was like more yeah commentary on all the shows. I used

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to but it's like pre-influencer era, pre-blogging being cool era, like pre any

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of the bloggers being invited to shows era. It was a long time ago. I'm pretty

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much from the same generation and I also like studied in a fashion school. Oh, no way!

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Wow, that's so cool. I always dreamed of doing that. Yeah, me too. But I was in like those

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Yeah, me too.

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But I was in like those peripheral courses of communication.

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That's amazing.

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That's so cool.

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Everyone was geeking out on September issues.

250
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Exactly.

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Yes.

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When style.com still existed also.

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So, I mean, I know your practices with the everyday shaders, any day shaders and other

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things that you've been posting on the internet have like various, I can, like sometimes you

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on the internet have like various, again, like sometimes you can see those various inspirations

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coming through. But like when you guys do the pair programming irrespective of whether

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it's on the stream or like when you guys do it on your own, do you kind of use, like sometimes

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I do that, like I would decide that, okay, I want to try and do a recreating of an X

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thing. So like, do you think of it like that when you start out or like, let's try to get

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So like, do you think of it like that when you start out or like, let's try to get like

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X shape out and then see where it goes and like build on it.

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So do those inspirations also like somehow combine or like collide together in some way?

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Depends on the day.

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I have a specific stream that's coming to mind now where Alethea was really inspired

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by a White Stripes video that we were like, okay, let's like figure out how to make that

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thing we're using.

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And was that the initial inspiration or did we just decide it looked like White Stripes

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how to make that thing we're using.

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And was that the initial inspiration or did we just

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decide it looked like white stripes and we got really excited?

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No, it was.

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No, I can't remember.

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It was a spontaneous stream and it was right.

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We were like, oh, what should we do today?

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And then I did say like, oh, let's try this like video white stripes.

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So, so it was.

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Cool. Okay. I remember you.

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But, but I was going to say that.

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So sometimes inspired by a lot of spontaneous.

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Yeah. But in the beginning,

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I, tell me if I'm wrong,

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but I feel like in the first episodes that we did,

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Tell me if I'm wrong, but I feel like in the first episodes that we did,

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like before we even had guests,

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we would kind of plan it with a mood board,

286
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remember? And then we will pick.

287
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Yeah, that's true.

288
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So actually in the beginning, we did plan.

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So setting up like a topic based on photos that we were like,

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picked out of the internet, right?

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Something to shoot for because we still didn't necessarily,

292
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I feel like now we're both so much more comfortable handling shaders.

293
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I feel like now we're both so much more comfortable handling shaders.

294
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So we can just kind of show up and be like,

295
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I don't know, what do you want to do today?

296
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And we'll have, I don't know, one of the two of us will have some technique that they're curious about.

297
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But back then it was really like, okay, wait, we want to like piece this together slowly.

298
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What can we do? Let's look at how this works.

299
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So yeah, we would do little mood boards.

300
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I think anyways, we were still getting to know each other at that point.

301
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So it was nice to have a way of like meeting in the middle and like going in with an idea.

302
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way of like meeting in the middle and like going in with an idea. And then if we

303
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have guests generally, if they are not new to shaders usually they have

304
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something that they want to show us. Right, like okay they may be like okay we

305
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want to try this or you may have a look at how do you do that like a question

306
00:14:45,340 --> 00:14:49,780
yeah exactly like with Sean or whatever. Oh yeah with Le Jeune Renard, Sean, we were

307
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Jean Renoir, Sean, he knew how obsessed we were with iridescent shaders.

308
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We ask him, actually he's one of the guests that we actually ask him like, can you please

309
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show us how to do iridescent?

310
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Because with other guests, we just tell them, hey, just let us know what you want to do,

311
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like we're very open and then they decide, right?

312
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So we always tell them that if they don't want to, because they might feel stressed

313
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about preparing, for example, that they could just come spontaneously and do shaders.

314
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about preparing, for example, that they could just come spontaneously and do shaders.

315
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But I think so far we've been, I guess, we've had only guests that wanted to plan

316
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and they were like quite okay with bringing something to the table and show us.

317
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Although I have noticed that it's created a bit of a precedent for future people who we want to invite

318
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because those who I've spoken to since have been like, but I don't have anything.

319
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I've been like, but I don't have anything.

320
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Like, what could I, and I'm like, just come, we'll code jam.

321
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,760
It's very casual, like it's not a big deal.

322
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So yeah, I feel like it's important for both of us,

323
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I think, to make sure people are not intimidated,

324
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but they remain intimidated.

325
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But we're working on it.

326
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:55,040
I mean, it's normal.

327
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It's your live coding and stuff, so I totally get it.

328
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But we want to destigmatize.

329
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,180
I would never want people to think that

330
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I would never want people to think that the only reason

331
00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,080
to be showcased is because of that.

332
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,500
You can also be showcased just because you're into shaders

333
00:16:08,500 --> 00:16:10,880
and you make fun visuals, or you want to learn shaders,

334
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or if you're curious, you are welcome.

335
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That is the whole point.

336
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:17,320
Yeah.

337
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,080
So in that sense, I mean, I think

338
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it was very much like how I messaged

339
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and I was like, oh my god, do I need to prepare?

340
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No, don't prepare anything.

341
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I was like, oh, this sounds like me

342
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when I'm calling people for coding events.

343
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I was like, oh, this sounds like me when I'm calling people for coding friends. I need

344
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to know more about them. So then when you guys started working together on the pair

345
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programming and what would I mean, also it was pandemic and all the kind of other burdens

346
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that come with, you know, having confined spaces and things. I just wanted to know,

347
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like, how did you kind of build this camaraderie? What does what did care mean in that aspect

348
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,440
kind of build this camaraderie? What does what did care mean in that aspect to you

349
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as two people who'd never met but have something you know extremely exciting in

350
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common that you do? Which I don't know perhaps you gave like I don't know were

351
00:17:02,940 --> 00:17:07,000
you guys doing it half an hour every day or was it like long sessions on random

352
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days or whenever you had time? Long sessions on random days. We would find a

353
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sit down and do it.

354
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I mean, we met in one of the workshops

355
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that the reigning, most prolific queen of shaders,

356
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,000
Shar Stiles, was giving online during the pandemic,

357
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and we ended up in one of those breakout rooms together,

358
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which normally, when people put me in a breakout room,

359
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:33,000
I leave.

360
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I despise that.

361
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But this time, I was like, whatever, it's Shar, it's shaders,

362
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,000
I can do this, it's fine.

363
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,000
And then, Alethea and I were talking,

364
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:37,680
I was like, whatever, it's Char, it's shaders,

365
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:39,200
I can do this, it's fine.

366
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,040
And then, Alethea and I were talking,

367
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and I realized that we had recently followed each other

368
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online, so that was super fun.

369
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,680
And then we just kept talking once the workshop was over.

370
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:52,440
And, I don't know, I'm pretty shy in person

371
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,060
when I meet new people, but online I'm very chatty

372
00:17:55,060 --> 00:17:57,660
because it's just me and my screen, so what do I care?

373
00:17:57,660 --> 00:17:59,640
So we were just sending each other voice notes,

374
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,880
and we realized that we had a lot in common,

375
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,640
and we're thinking about a lot of the same stuff.

376
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:06,000
We realized that we had a lot in common and we're thinking about a lot of the same stuff

377
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,260
and really wanted to just continue coding.

378
00:18:09,260 --> 00:18:12,040
So we decided why not like code together.

379
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,200
I don't even know like who even proposed it.

380
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:15,200
Who put that on the table?

381
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:16,200
I don't know.

382
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,140
I'm just glad that someone did.

383
00:18:18,140 --> 00:18:25,080
Maybe it was me because I must say that when we met, Eliza has a pretty solid career as

384
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:26,840
an artist I would say.

385
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:28,800
solid career as an artist, I would say, for the time that I met her.

386
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,520
And I was just like an emerging artist.

387
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,640
So I was looking up at her and when we're getting to know each other, I told her I would

388
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,160
love to collaborate one time like you want.

389
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,040
And I think that's how it happened.

390
00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:45,200
And then, because I think both, I mean, I told her, yeah, I'm trying to get into shaders

391
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:51,200
because I told her I want to get into like doing more installation and visual work and

392
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:54,240
more installation and visual work and artists that I was looking up to doing that kind of stuff.

393
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:59,680
Like Joshua Davis is one of the artists I really like his work and follow for many, many years.

394
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:04,640
And he always said that he works with shaders and processing. So I thought, oh yeah, I really have

395
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:10,640
to like get into this shader thing. And then Eliza told me I'm just like coming back to shaders

396
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:15,680
after like leaving shaders for like some years. And I mean, that's why we met. And I think that's,

397
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,680
for like some years.

398
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:15,200
And I mean, that's why we met.

399
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,320
And I think that's, yeah, that's why we said like,

400
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:18,880
well, why don't we try to collaborate

401
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,880
and do something like with it as we both learn

402
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:23,560
and like try to get better.

403
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,200
So I think that's how it is.

404
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,160
Yeah, I feel like also in the breakout rooms

405
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:29,480
during those workshops,

406
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:30,960
because Sharded like a series of them.

407
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:32,160
And I think I like went to all of them.

408
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,160
And I remember realizing during that whole series

409
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:39,680
that I really, really work better,

410
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:43,340
really, really work better, learn better when I can fiddle with things while talking to people about it.

411
00:19:43,340 --> 00:19:43,840
Me too.

412
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,380
Because I need to encounter an idea a million different ways before it like sinks in.

413
00:19:47,380 --> 00:19:50,880
Because if I'm just like staring at it trying to make sense of myself, I never know if I'm like,

414
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,220
am I getting this? Do I understand what is happening right now?

415
00:19:54,220 --> 00:19:57,020
And so being able to talk about it with someone and like,

416
00:19:57,020 --> 00:20:02,640
because the person I'm talking to is for sure going to think about it maybe similarly but always differently,

417
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,720
about it maybe similarly but always differently. That way we get to kind of

418
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,440
like find a middle ground and you're like, oh I didn't think of it that way,

419
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,720
okay that makes sense kind of thing. Which is also why the stream sounded fun

420
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,920
when we started thinking about it because then it's like more angles to

421
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,160
interpret the ideas we like.

422
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,280
Yeah I felt that especially when we were

423
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:23,280
figuring out that second layer in the shader and then you both had such

424
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,560
different approaches and you were so like comfortable to like give each other

425
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:32,080
coaches and you were so comfortable to give each other that space to kind of move into

426
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:37,800
okay let's try this and then let's you know like that kind of that patience is very reflective

427
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,280
of like caring for each other like caring for each other doesn't necessarily mean like

428
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,880
at least to me that oh how are you doing? Oh are you feeling? You know it is about like

429
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:51,320
being able to give each other that patience and space to like work together and you know

430
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:54,880
and space to like work together and you know, like build it as a team now. You are a team,

431
00:20:54,880 --> 00:21:02,800
right? Totally. In that sense. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. For me, that's very important

432
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:09,120
when I'm working with like a team that you were saying, I always, I'm always curious to hear what

433
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:15,520
they think. And despite maybe knowing already, for example, the answer to solve a problem,

434
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,400
maybe knowing already, for example, the answer to solve a problem.

435
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,440
I'm always curious to ask the next person, like, what do you think about this?

436
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,520
Like, have you thought it like differently?

437
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:26,080
And if they say yes, I'm, I always want to know, Oh, how would you have solved it?

438
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,160
So yeah, exactly.

439
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:33,840
Because maybe I can discover a, like a new world of seeing the thing in a different way,

440
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:38,760
you know, and pick up something that I might like, or maybe I will not like it, but still

441
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,120
like or maybe I will not like it,

442
00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:42,320
but still I'm still curious to see how it is.

443
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,880
There's something also about working together on

444
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,840
something or within a team when the team vibes where you are.

445
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,200
I mean, I guess it doesn't like you're saying,

446
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,120
it doesn't always happen, but I think if you leave

447
00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:54,960
the space for each person to put their ideas on the table,

448
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,680
you will undoubtedly, undoubtedly,

449
00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,320
undoubtedly, how do you say that word?

450
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,240
You know what I mean, end up with something

451
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,920
that you would probably not have made on your own.

452
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,680
end up with something that you would probably not have made on your own.

453
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:08,480
Like an aesthetic that is going to be different or shapes that are going to be created differently or whatever.

454
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:14,560
And that's what's kind of fun because it's always going to put you in a spot that you could never land in alone.

455
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:15,560
It's really fun.

456
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:21,360
Okay, so before we go on to the last question, I was wondering, like, I mean,

457
00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:27,080
do you think that in terms of gender, did you feel like you weren't able to access some things until

458
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:28,480
Did you feel like you weren't able to access some things until you had that workshop with

459
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,040
Char and then you met each other?

460
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,880
And were there like times where you tried to collaborate with others from the Shader

461
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:34,880
community?

462
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:39,880
But this made more sense just, you know, as something that's that's coming from, you know,

463
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:40,880
shared experience as women.

464
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,120
Well, maybe I can answer this.

465
00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:49,120
For me, I've never really had like, despite, you know, the tech in general being, of course,

466
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:56,120
And of course, a bigger percentage is more male, I think in every country.

467
00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:59,080
We're like a minority woman, mostly.

468
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:04,880
I've never had a bad experience, despite being working with mostly men.

469
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:11,640
But the very first time that I discovered a woman community back in 2015, for example,

470
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:16,000
in tech, and I went to an event and started to blend.

471
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:18,400
And I went to an event and started to blend and I realized, and I discovered that I actually

472
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:23,660
felt a little bit more comfortable somehow as well, like to, to see other women that

473
00:23:23,660 --> 00:23:28,940
were doing like the same thing as I, because when I was working with men, um, well, I don't

474
00:23:28,940 --> 00:23:33,840
see myself in them in a way, no, because we always need role models as persons.

475
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:34,840
Right.

476
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:40,800
So who do you look up to, um, that you could totally see, okay, I can be that person, especially

477
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:41,800
that you could totally see, okay, I can be that person, especially like if it's like

478
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,840
the same genre that you think of yourself.

479
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:50,940
So for me, when I saw and discovered that Char, who was a woman, was doing a shader

480
00:23:50,940 --> 00:23:53,680
workshop, I was like, Oh wow, like great.

481
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,600
Just because I haven't met so many women that do shaders, right.

482
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:03,780
So, but I did have tried other stuff with men and videos, for example, that I look up

483
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:05,320
other stuff with man and videos, for example, that I look up to and I've learned to as well

484
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:09,320
a lot like the art of code or Yuri.

485
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:10,920
I forget his name now online.

486
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,240
I wanted to say his online name.

487
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:17,820
But with Yuri I learned a lot of shaders before I learned with Char, for example.

488
00:24:17,820 --> 00:24:21,520
But somehow it was like with Char, oh, this is like a role model and I see myself.

489
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,640
So at least that's my feeling.

490
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:30,520
still to this day, I suppose, when I'm learning from another woman as opposed to another man,

491
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:38,160
that I feel more reflected. But that doesn't mean that I still have as well some wonderful

492
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,320
men that I admire too, no? Their work.

493
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:45,120
That's for me. I mean, I think this is one of the one points where Elithie and I have

494
00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:49,720
very different experiences. I've had some like, what's the word? Just bringing, like

495
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,680
the type of experience that really brings you down in terms of like the more traditional

496
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,480
what's the word, just bringing,

497
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,400
like the type of experience that really brings you down in

498
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,880
terms of like the more traditional dev scene.

499
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,920
Like, yeah, not great.

500
00:24:57,920 --> 00:24:59,520
Really left me feeling like,

501
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,960
am I, do I have a place here?

502
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,520
But thankfully, the creative coding community

503
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,640
was like right there to catch me, really.

504
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,760
And yeah, definitely, predominantly guys.

505
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,880
Patricia was very encouraging,

506
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,760
Dan Shiffman, so lovely.

507
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,840
very encouraging, Dan Shiffman, so lovely,

508
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,280
and I met some really incredible people through there.

509
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,440
But for the first couple years, it was mostly all men,

510
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,520
and yeah, it definitely, it's just a different energy.

511
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,220
It's not a bad energy, it's just a different one.

512
00:25:27,220 --> 00:25:30,320
And so when it's only that type of energy,

513
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,600
you can definitely feel alienated.

514
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,680
So I was really excited to find Char,

515
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,800
and to find Alethea, and to find Sol,

516
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,120
Alethea and to find Sol and to find,

517
00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:42,120
now I'm forgetting everyone's name.

518
00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:43,080
Nicole now.

519
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,400
Nicole and oh my goodness,

520
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:47,880
what's her name? She's French.

521
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:49,760
She's so insanely good.

522
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:50,560
Flopine.

523
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,240
Flopine. Oh my goodness, I can't remember her name.

524
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,280
And speaking of the demo scene versus live coding,

525
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:57,360
she's part of both.

526
00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:59,440
And so in Paris, there's actually a collective called

527
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,640
Cookie Collective that kind of overlaps the two.

528
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,520
So they are demo sceners who are live coding and they

529
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,500
that kind of overlaps the two.

530
00:26:02,500 --> 00:26:05,000
So they are demo sceners who are live coding

531
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,500
and they kind of, well, when I first met them,

532
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:10,000
it was very demo sceny and I was so intimidated.

533
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,000
But now over the years, they've actually kind of like

534
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,500
gotten more gentle, which is really nice.

535
00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:17,000
But I think it's also because, maybe in part,

536
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,500
because Flippin is like one of the strongest live coders out there

537
00:26:20,500 --> 00:26:25,000
and she's part of the collective, so it's super fun.

538
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,500
But for our stream, and as far as that goes,

539
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:28,920
But for our stream, and as far as that goes,

540
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:33,440
it was very important to us that we highlight both men,

541
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,720
women, and non-binary folks of all colors and creeds,

542
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,040
and just like across the board so that people can see that

543
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:45,520
everyone out there who is curious about coding and shaders and stuff,

544
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:50,960
like has a spot, has a place.

545
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,200
Oh my gosh, sorry.

546
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:53,720
I've been reading in French all day.

547
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,000
Spot has a

548
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,060
Place. Oh my gosh. Sorry. I've been reading in French all day

549
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,700
Yeah, there's room for everybody basically is what I'm trying to say

550
00:26:57,700 --> 00:27:01,480
So I think now we'll kind of move to that last question about care

551
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:07,460
What care means to you at work and at home and I'd like to know what care means to you together as friends. I mean

552
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,600
Care between between like in terms of our friendship

553
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,240
I don't know, we listen to each other a lot

554
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,000
in terms of what our ambitions and hopes are

555
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,880
for Curiously Minded, but also just in life stuff.

556
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:23,520
I don't know, it's funny because Alethea and I

557
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,800
have never met in person, but we have lots

558
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,600
of deep conversations by voice note all the time.

559
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,580
And I don't know, we just click.

560
00:27:30,580 --> 00:27:32,800
So caring is listening to each other,

561
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:33,840
it's being there for each other,

562
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,240
even though we're far away from each other.

563
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,080
And being very flexible also.

564
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,040
I would never want to do a stream

565
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:41,440
if Alethea wasn't up for it.

566
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,960
and being very flexible also.

567
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,080
Like I would never want to do a stream

568
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:41,480
if Alethea wasn't up for it.

569
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,200
And even once I saw she forced herself

570
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,060
and she was super tired and I was angry with her after

571
00:27:45,060 --> 00:27:47,640
because she should have told me we would have canceled it.

572
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,360
But yeah, I don't know.

573
00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:53,360
Beyond that, just like, I don't know.

574
00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:55,440
Sharing, I share with her a ton,

575
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:56,880
like the stuff that I do during my day

576
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:58,440
that helps me whenever she's telling me

577
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,640
that she has a rough time or vice versa.

578
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,800
We give each other all of our advices,

579
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:05,320
vice versa. We give each other all of our advices, which are often overlapping because

580
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,840
we are so similar in the way that we experience the world. Like we're both fairly sensitive,

581
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,560
kind of intuitive, open hearted people. So yeah, I don't know. Am I missing anything?

582
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:20,880
No, no. I would say that you nailed it because it's totally accurate. And I guess we've developed

583
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:25,120
a friendship despite like Eliza said, yet not meeting in person.

584
00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:26,120
Yet.

585
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,880
in person where, um, yeah, exactly.

586
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:33,920
That's why I said, and, uh, uh, yeah, sometimes, uh, we talk about not only like, or stream

587
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:39,200
or like coding or the geeky stuff that interests us, but just as she said, live.

588
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:44,720
And we, if we have like something excited, sometimes we do share it with each other.

589
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:50,400
Um, if, uh, we're having a hard time, uh, we share it with each other.

590
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,000
We share it with each other.

591
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,000
And like Eliza was saying, we listen.

592
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:58,000
And I've always told Eliza, like, if you ever need to talk or you know that I'm here, so just text me.

593
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,000
And it's the same with her, that she has told me.

594
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,000
So it's that.

595
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:16,000
And yeah, that's, I suppose, the other thing that we didn't mention before that she just said, that we have this rule in the stream that we said, like, if we ever, like, are about to stream even like, I don't know, an hour, half an hour,

596
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:17,440
we ever like are about to stream even like, I don't know, an hour, half an hour, and something

597
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,960
happening in our lives that we just like kind of make it just let the other known. And I

598
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,560
always told that it will never be a big deal for me. I will never be angry. I'm not that

599
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,120
kind of person that if you cancel like 30 minutes before I'm going to be like, for me,

600
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:34,640
it's fine. So that's another thing I suppose when it comes to carrying a right. So we both

601
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:39,400
support that, that part that if we are not like we don't, we don't try to push each other

602
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:40,400
in a bad way.

603
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,000
That if we are not like, we don't try to push each other in a bad way.

604
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,000
No, in no pressure environment, I was going to say.

605
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,000
Yeah, in a good way.

606
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,000
Yeah, no, in a good way, yes.

607
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,000
I will always be your number one hype woman.

608
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,000
But, like, we struggled a lot with audio at the beginning, for example.

609
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,000
And, like, I don't know, once I streamed, like, I was handling the stream,

610
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,000
and I messed it up, and it was super janky, and for some reason,

611
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,000
and it's like, it was like all of the frames were freezing,

612
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,000
and we were live, and I was like, oh my gosh.

613
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,000
But, like, neither of us has ever bothered by any of that,

614
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,400
and we were live and I was like, oh my gosh.

615
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,260
But like, neither of us has ever bothered by any of that

616
00:30:05,260 --> 00:30:08,220
and neither is thankfully our audience,

617
00:30:08,220 --> 00:30:09,340
who are also very patient,

618
00:30:09,340 --> 00:30:11,460
but I feel like our audience is a reflection

619
00:30:11,460 --> 00:30:12,700
of how we go about it.

620
00:30:12,700 --> 00:30:14,660
We're not rigid, so they're not rigid.

621
00:30:14,660 --> 00:30:17,260
They know that we aren't, so I guess they can't be.

622
00:30:18,220 --> 00:30:21,740
Yeah, so in that sense, it's like a one big experiment

623
00:30:21,740 --> 00:30:24,340
and it should be fun and everything is a learning process,

624
00:30:24,340 --> 00:30:26,500
as much the shaders as OBS is,

625
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,920
us as much the shaders as OBS is, as web audio,

626
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,840
compression rates with video.

627
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,680
Yeah, stuff like that.

628
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,040
When I started kind of coding these little sketches,

629
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:38,380
and I mentioned that to you guys,

630
00:30:38,380 --> 00:30:42,120
that from 10-year projects to five-minute sketches

631
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,200
kind of thing, about six, seven months later,

632
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,760
I was just reflecting on it with my husband, Agat.

633
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:51,280
And he said that this is very much

634
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,200
like your own format of self-care.

635
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,960
with my husband Agat and he said that this is very much like your own format of self-care

636
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,800
like you don't like getting your nails done or like going to a spa but you like to do these

637
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:03,040
five minute sketches that kind of like probably just help you with your day. So I mean I don't

638
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:08,560
know if that's a direct reflection of curiously minded but have you felt that perhaps when you

639
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:14,160
were having a really horrible day you really had this to look forward to like the other than the

640
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,840
like the other than the other way around where you having a shit day.

641
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,000
And yes, yeah, definitely.

642
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,240
Absolutely. Every time we stream, we both are so happy after.

643
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:22,480
We're like, oh, I'm so fun.

644
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,040
And I was going to say that that's the reason why, like the streaming

645
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,000
that Elisa was mentioning that I told her when we finished, like, oh,

646
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:29,400
I wasn't feeling good.

647
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,320
And then she told me, oh, my God, why didn't you tell me?

648
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,880
Like we could have canceled because I even had a migraine the whole time.

649
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:36,400
And I told her, no, I didn't want it to cancel

650
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,600
because actually I was feeling so shitty that I thought that this would make me

651
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,120
I wanted to cancel because actually I was feeling so shitty that I thought that this

652
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:40,400
would make me feel better.

653
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,160
And I told her it did make me feel better.

654
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,520
It didn't remove the migraine, but at least I felt like much better.

655
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:46,840
So lifted her spirits.

656
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:47,840
Yeah, exactly.

657
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:55,480
So, yeah, but I also can as well extend on that, that for me, my own art, when I code

658
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,880
it's therapy, it has always been.

659
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,280
And that's how it started for me.

660
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:01,280
Mental health wise.

661
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:05,720
mental health wise. That's why I got into creative coding as a therapy. And nowadays

662
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:13,320
it still is like it's something where I can just relax and let all the feelings be there.

663
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,720
And I can see it reflected in my art, like when I'm feeling like very happy, or if I'm

664
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:24,540
maybe a little bit sad, it reflects completely in, especially once I started to iterate more

665
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:29,000
create more and more of these shaders that I share, that it started maybe one every three

666
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:35,840
weeks and then one every two weeks. This year I'm almost doing them daily, I feel.

667
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,240
Yeah, you've gotten so good.

668
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:43,560
Yeah, I finally got into the thing. But nowadays it doesn't take me too long either. Like for

669
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:49,680
me, that's part of care. I would think to have to be mentally good and as well, like

670
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,360
and as well, like health-wise for me.

671
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,720
Otherwise I cannot manage not only that,

672
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:54,800
but my life in general.

673
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,840
And also if I'm not good in my mind,

674
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,200
like everything else falls apart around me.

675
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,120
I would say for me,

676
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,000
what I was thinking while you were saying that was

677
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,080
in terms of my creativity and stuff,

678
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,360
I definitely have noticed that the more I'm in community,

679
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:10,920
the more I'm collaborating with people,

680
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,120
the clearer my own vision is for what I want to make.

681
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:15,600
So if I'm just alone,

682
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,280
potting around in my room for weeks on end,

683
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,320
my own vision is for what I want to make.

684
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:15,800
So if I'm just alone,

685
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,480
putting around in my room for weeks on end,

686
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,440
which was like the beginning of the pandemic,

687
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,040
I get really lost and confused.

688
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:23,640
I don't know what's up or down.

689
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,040
I'm not sure if I'm motivated or not,

690
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:27,080
like any of it.

691
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,480
But once I have someone in front of me,

692
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:30,480
it's like a vector.

693
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,240
Like I get pointed in a direction

694
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:33,680
and then I can normalize my vector

695
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,280
and figure out exactly what I want to do.

696
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:36,360
And I love that analogy.

697
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:37,680
I can't believe I just made it.

698
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,600
And then I can like get to work.

699
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,720
But if I don't have other people around me,

700
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,000
I can't believe I just made it.

701
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,000
And then I can like get to work.

702
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:44,000
But if I don't have other people around me, I am very confused.

703
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:51,000
So yeah, the stream and coding with Aletheia and everything like that has always been wonderfully motivating and grounding.

704
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,000
Really grounding. Yeah.

705
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,000
I think we have that in common.

706
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:56,000
Yeah.

707
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,000
When we talked about like how we do stuff.

708
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:06,240
to like work with teams and because when we talk about our life separate of work, like

709
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,080
I was telling Eliza once, oh, I, when I do sports, for example, I really enjoy, like

710
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:16,180
I used to play basketball like for 15 years of my life and the taekwondo and all of these

711
00:34:16,180 --> 00:34:17,180
things are like.

712
00:34:17,180 --> 00:34:19,480
I played soccer for 15 years.

713
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:20,480
Yeah.

714
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,360
So, and you play with these people now that you connect.

715
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:28,040
And I told Eliza, cause I started running like two years ago and I've never done it

716
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:29,000
I started running like two years ago and I've never done it before because I told her,

717
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,000
I always thought it was so boring because you just go on your own.

718
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,000
That was me for yoga. It's my like one solo practice that I'm like,

719
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,000
I don't want to do with anyone. I want to do myself.

720
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, I just wanted to say that we have that other thing in common.

721
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,000
I suppose that we like to be inspired by others.

722
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:50,000
Yeah, definitely. In terms of like collaborating with people who I actually vibe with,

723
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:54,960
with people who I actually vibe with was that because that is so helpful for me in my creative

724
00:34:54,960 --> 00:35:00,360
process, for a long time, for all of the years where I was really struggling in the more

725
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:06,040
traditional dev world to figure, like I just didn't understand why my experiences were

726
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:07,920
so awful and toxic.

727
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,040
And so I felt like it was, I was like, is it me?

728
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:11,040
Like it must be me.

729
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,280
If it's happening all the time, something is wrong with me.

730
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,160
something is wrong with me.

731
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:19,040
And so I kept finding myself siloed and away and alone

732
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:20,480
and not being able to collaborate with people.

733
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:21,940
And I just really wanted to collaborate.

734
00:35:21,940 --> 00:35:23,880
And everyone was like, no, you're

735
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,400
going to be by yourself in a corner.

736
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,320
And I was like, why?

737
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,160
And so I felt very stifled and confused.

738
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,320
And I didn't feel like I was learning or growing.

739
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:35,200
And so it was so amazing to meet people like Alethea

740
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,000
and everyone else that we've kind of intercepted

741
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,200
along the way to realize that it was just

742
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:42,120
kind of like intercepted along the way to realize it. It was just the

743
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:47,680
culture of that world that from the angle that I was meeting it anyways that

744
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:54,200
was the issue. So it's nice to know that I can collaborate and in fact I thrive

745
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,120
when I collaborate.

746
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:04,280
Care Of is a spin-off of Computational Mama's live coding stream called

747
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:06,240
Care Of is a spin-off of Computational Mama's live coding stream called Coding With Friends.

748
00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:10,880
Coding With Friends casually and simply claims spaces for women creators.

749
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:17,120
The series extends the idea of live coding as a form of camaraderie, friendship and care.

750
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:21,840
But after two seasons of Coding With Friends, it seemed crucial to extend these conversations

751
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:27,080
in a pre-recorded format where the invited guests can talk more intimately about their

752
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:29,200
guests can talk more intimately about their work, their lives and their ideas of care.